Comments on: Vlogging: ‘Library 101′ and the AL

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Wed, 11 Nov 2009 21:05:37 +0000

Over at the YouTube page for the video, I had a great exchange with Alison Miller, who had some good points and criticisms to share. Since I seem unable to aggregate responses to what I do automatically all in one place, I figured I’d just copy and paste that exchange here:

MillerLibrarian

Are you serious? Talk about feeding the trolls – How is your video different/more appropriate than anything that you speak of? Frankly, your comments are more embarrassing to me, as a professional and library user/promoter/supporter…I’m sorry for you. And, I’m also putting my name on it Alison Miller

davidlrothman

Allison-

Well, I didn’t reply in anyone’s forum but my own, I didn’t link to those who I think should not be encouraged, I never even used the alias of the pseudonymous blogger at LJ. I did not call anyone name.

I’d be interested to hear more specifics about what exactly embarrassed you. Perhaps with some more specific feedback, I can do better next time.

Best,

-David

MillerLibrarian

David~ Wow – great way for dialogue. My comments come because I felt that your video was similar in it’s content/delivery to those that you mentioned. After watching your video, instead of seeing your point, my immediate reaction was defense. Perhaps embarrassment was a strong word, but this was related to your acronyms and such. I like that you expressed your opinion, but felt that it criticized (perhaps subconsciously) those that don’t feel the same way.

MillerLibrarian

I hope that these comments are clearer and again, I am very impressed with your response and openness for dialogue – I was afraid that this might come back to haunt me…I hope that it won’t!Best~
Alison

davidlrothman

Hey Alison-

Yeah, probably some of the acronym recitals were a bit over-the-top. This was my first attempt at a video blog post. If I do more of them, perhaps I can dial the obnoxious bits back a bit.

I have to disagree with the assertion that my content resembled that of the pseudonymous blogger at LJ because I wasn’t nasty and didn’t make personal attacks…and I sign my name to what I say (as did you- well done!)…

davidlrothman

Now to your point of if the video criticized those who disagree with me: I think it is impossible to write/perform an opinion piece that does not imply confidence in its own perspective. I’m not sure how to compose an opinion piece that would not annoy people who disagree with it. Does that make any sense?

-David

MillerLibrarian

Yup – makes sense! And I definitely cannot criticize your attempt at a video blog post – haven’t done one myself, but I think that they can be effective. Point well taken on the opinion piece! I have a different perspective now

Best~
Alison

davidlrothman

I’m so glad. Thanks for the comments, Alison!

By: Fusty librarian

Fusty librarian — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:01:31 +0000

My mistake – you’re right, no defense of principles in the “In which I resist…” post, but it was the one before it (Shiny Toys) that I thought had some merit. I think AL’s point there is that one must recognize what it is that is essential and immeasurably important about libraries, and stick with it. That “it” is hard to define but it has to do with literacy, reading and education, and an underlying conviction that public libraries, like art museums and orchestras and other cultural institutions, contribute in some hard to measure way to the creation of a free and democratic society. To me, the 101 video…and much hype about libraries/librarians…strays too far from that. It brought to mind the point made in Barbarians at the Gates of the Public Library that the current decadent state of our public libraries reflects the state of the (consumer) culture at large.

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 21:05:52 +0000

Hi Royce-

Hopefully, nobody in libraryland doubts the importance of libraries. That shouldn’t be a debate we need to have.

I tend to think that almost any dichotomy is too simple to accurately describe anything in this complex world and tends to oversimplify both one’s own position and that of those one disagrees with.

Fusty-

Ask anyone who knows me- I’m frequently more grumpy than called-for.

I think that the AL frequently makes good points, including in her last couple posts. But that last post isn’t “a defense of library principles.” If you think it was, please tell me *what* principles were under attack and *in what lines* the AL defended them?

I think I have proven that it is possible to criticize the substance and presentation of something without resorting to nastiness or personal attacks. I think her/his/their readership would grow if the pseudonym was set aside and the writing, while remaining as opinionated as ever, was more professional and less nasty.

Lastly, we should know better than to call something “good” simply because it is popular. We know that popularity does not equal authority or quality. More often, I find, popularity is the result of catering to the lowest common denominator.

And of course, we can disagree on all of this, Fusty- but the civility with which we disagree is important to the profession. Thanks for the comments!

By: Fusty librarian

Fusty librarian — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:58:39 +0000

Perhaps I was overly grumpy, and thank you for responding in a more gentlemanly tone than I deserved! I think people make too much of AL’s pseudonymity. Indeed, it has its advantages; it focuses both her and our attention on what she says rather than who she is. And, ironically perhaps, much of the criticism and debate might be milder, or silenced altogether, if we knew who she was; I’m not sure I’d bother to read her at all if she was a person rather than a persona. And is she really so nasty? She attacks schools and trends and cliques, but I don’t really see that the “ad hominem” charge is valid…perhaps I’ve overlooked it. And finally, it must be acknowledged that LJ, via the AL, has succeeded in directing a great deal of attention to important library issues. What other library blog has that kind of readership, or comment-frequency? Much of it is trash, but much is not. Her latest post on the 101 thing (In Which I resist etc.), for example, is I think a sober defense of solid library principles. Thanks for your civility:)

By: roycekitts

roycekitts — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 16:56:49 +0000

Nice video. Lost in all the back and forth between everyone seems to be the importance of libraries in our culture. Instead we are focusing in on the proper ways to hold public debates.

Clearly Libraryland is forming into two camps. The keep the library like it is, and the what the hell is the library going to be in the future.

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 15:32:45 +0000

Hi Fusty-

I think it *is* different from the AL’s criticism because I signed my (actual) name to it and because I didn’t make an ad hominem remarks.

There was no “exhortation to the masses not to read or comment at AL.” I advised (only) those who don’t like her/his/their work to not comment in the comments section of her blog or link to her blog from elsewhere.

Hey, if you like her/his/their stuff, go ahead and read it. If you feel like commenting on her/his/their stuff, please do.

Since I don’t like her/his/their nastiness and I don’t think LJ should publish a pseudonymous author, I won’t be giving LJ the traffic or Google juice- but that’s just me.

Thanks for the comment!

By: Fusty Librarian

Fusty Librarian — Sat, 07 Nov 2009 14:16:25 +0000

This jokesy vlog is almost as self-indulgent as Library 101. The criticism of library 101 is accurate, but is it really any less severe than the AL’s? Of course the AL bashing at the beginning takes the edge off, but is patronizing criticism any better than sincerely annoyed criticism? And the exhortation to the masses not read or comment at AL, what’s that all about???

By: Meredith

Meredith — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:56:24 +0000

I wrote a comment, but got an error message. It will be impossible to replicate now with a cranky 6 month old on my lap, but I’ll just say that I agreed with everything you said (esp. the 101 stuff, which I didn’t understand when I was asked to write an “essay” for it – sometimes you do things because someone is a friend and you want to support what they’re doing — and still don’t understand) and absolutely loved your insightful, entertaining, funny, and wicked smart vlog! It was everything a vlog post should be and I hope you’ll consider doing it again.

Seriously, you are one of the awesomest people in libraryland.

By: david lee king

david lee king — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:14:15 +0000

Nicely put, and I agree with most of what you said. Especially the stuff you said about Library 101 – Michael and I have heard some of what you said from more than one person, too … all good, because it helps us craft a better message should we do this again. So thanks for that.

As far as the M&S/LJ/AL thing goes … I see both yours and Jason’s points. Like Jason, I was pretty tickled to be included, because of the others already included – to me, it IS a type of “good job” recognition. But my view of that award changed drastically a few months after my award was given – when LJ decided to pay for anonymous ad hominem posts, and to brand it as LJ content. Pretty unprofessional move from an organization I used to respect.

What have I done since? Other than mentioning when some of my friends get the M&S thing (ie., Jason, et al) … I don’t link to them or mention them on my blog. I also don’t comment at LJ. To be fair, I’m not sure there has been a reason – not sure if anything I’d actually WANT to blog about from LJ has crossed my path recently. But it’s something I think about.

Not that that’s any big thing – I’m just one blogger in a heap of smarter bloggers, authors, etc. But it’s what I do … primarily because of LJ’s stance on paying for anonymous namecalling, etc. So for me, it’s much more than not feeding the troll.

And, very off-topic – it was Logic Express, not GarageBand. Sheesh!

By: David Rothman

David Rothman — Thu, 05 Nov 2009 18:56:45 +0000

Ratcatcher- Yes, you’re absolutely right.